How To Say No
Welcome back to Diary of a Worthy Pursuit, the podcast where we dive deep into the challenges and triumphs of navigating life’s journey. In today’s episode, we tackle the art of saying no. We explore the power of this seemingly simple word and how it can transform our lives. With insightful anecdotes and thought-provoking discussions, we learn why saying no is not only necessary but also liberating. Join us as we uncover the strategies, considerations, and benefits of mastering the skill of saying no. Get ready for an episode full of valuable insights and practical wisdom. This is Diary of a Worthy Pursuit: How to Say No.
Podcast Transcription:
Speaker A [00:00:06]:
So I was part of this networking group, kind of a, hey, informal group that we meet once a month. And I’d been going to that group for years, probably close to a decade. And one time, somebody came up to me and they’re like, hey, James. You’re pretty cool. What are your thoughts on being on the board for this thing? I thought, hey. That sounds kinda cool, you know, big resume builder, whatever. I can meet some people, rub shoulders with all the important people in Madison. Sounded like a good thing.
Speaker A [00:00:33]:
So I said yes. And, eventually, over the course of a few years, I ended up becoming president, and it was a terrible decision. The reason it was a terrible decision was because I spent 100, if not 1,000 of hours trying to get stuff done with this board, and the board wasn’t exactly moving very well. The group ended up folding under my watch during the pandemic, and so I still feel guilty about that. So today, we’re gonna talk about the power of no and how it can actually help
Speaker B [00:01:03]:
you. Welcome to Diary of a Worthy Pursuit.
Speaker A [00:01:05]:
Where we teach you how to get what you truly want in life and business.
Speaker B [00:01:10]:
I hear you on that guilt. It is so hard sometimes when you feel like, oh, I should be doing something or this Should be further along that and sometimes we just have to realize, like, enough is enough.
Speaker A [00:01:23]:
Yeah.
Speaker B [00:01:23]:
So how did you come to that decision?
Speaker A [00:01:25]:
To close it up or the I don’t know if that was necessarily mine because I tried so pandemic, we would meet in person. Mhmm. So pandemic, I wasn’t around. That was challenging
Speaker B [00:01:36]:
Yeah.
Speaker A [00:01:36]:
To meet in person.
Speaker B [00:01:37]:
Right.
Speaker A [00:01:38]:
So we went to Zoom, right, which boo Yeah. Right? Not the same at all Mhmm. Especially for a group that relies on people shaking hands and other deals and stuff like that. That’s where you meet people, deals get made, all that jazz. So on Zoom, that’s a different story because you have, whatever, 30, 40 people, and 1 person’s talking instead of 30, 40 people, and 15 are talking.
Speaker B [00:02:00]:
Yeah.
Speaker A [00:02:01]:
So it’s a different story.
Speaker B [00:02:02]:
Right.
Speaker A [00:02:02]:
And I tried we would, it would happen over lunch. So lunch would be served at whatever venue we were at. And so then I tried to have people because I wanted to help the restaurant that we had a contract with. So I had people where they could pick up their lunch restaurant, but that restaurant was one place, not necessarily near Yeah. Where they were working their office or house or wherever they were working. So it’s one of those, like you’re just grasping to try to keep the thing alive, and then you realize, like, what is the if all goes well, what will be the end result?
Speaker B [00:02:38]:
Right.
Speaker A [00:02:39]:
And it’s not necessarily a positive thing. Mhmm. The end result is you’re still gonna be on this board. You’re gonna still be dinking around with people on the board that aren’t exactly pulling their weight, and it’s gonna be taking a lot of your time.
Speaker B [00:02:49]:
Yeah. Well, I think that’s the key piece too is the time. You know? So often we find ourselves putting time into things that we either feel like we should or we did it because we’ve been there for long, so we feel like we can’t back out.
Speaker A [00:03:00]:
There’s an obligation.
Speaker B [00:03:01]:
Right.
Speaker A [00:03:02]:
True or not.
Speaker B [00:03:03]:
Yeah. Whether it’s self imposed or otherwise. Yeah. And then we end up stuck in a place where we know doesn’t align with where we’re going, but somehow we have to negotiate our way out of that. Yeah. And first, recognizing that, one, it doesn’t serve you anymore, and then, getting your way out of it Mhmm. Can be really hard.
Speaker A [00:03:18]:
Yeah. I remember when I was on that board, we were trying to recruit additional people for the board, and I remember hearing no from people. And my first thought was, how can you say no to this?
Speaker B [00:03:29]:
Yeah. And
Speaker A [00:03:30]:
then over the course of a few months or years, then I learned, like, I totally see why you said no to this.
Speaker B [00:03:34]:
Right. But you bring up another good point. So those people that you were asking were probably looking at everything else that was going on in their lives. Right? So we’ve got the time Some Commitment. But then we’ve got all the other projects and
Speaker A [00:03:46]:
stuff that we’re doing. Yeah.
Speaker B [00:03:47]:
They’re aware. Yeah. But the the idea that, like, I only have and 68 hours in a week just like you do, but how I spend my time is very different. So am I going to allow someone else to fill it, or am I gonna intentionally fill it with Some I want. So I think we do this with our time, but we also do this with projects.
Speaker A [00:04:04]:
Totally.
Speaker B [00:04:05]:
You know? So someone might come to you with opportunity early on in your business, and you might be like, yep. That sounds great. Yes to that. Oh, there’s another one over there. Cool. Yes to that. Yes to that. And you keep just gathering all of these yes opportunities because you feel like I need to be doing something.
Speaker A [00:04:18]:
Mhmm.
Speaker B [00:04:18]:
You know, especially early on in your business. That’s where I am, so I guess that’s where
Speaker A [00:04:22]:
Oh, yeah.
Speaker B [00:04:22]:
Referencing my experience, but then after you’ve been in it a while, you are able to pick up your head and look and be like, well, that one wasn’t a really good fit. And I probably should have said here because of this, this, and this. And maybe this one over here, this wasn’t the best fit for the time it came. That would have been better 3 years down the road, 5 years down the road, whatever. So having A filter really helps. But I think in the beginning, you would just feel like you have to say yes to everything.
Speaker A [00:04:47]:
Right.
Speaker B [00:04:47]:
And then you end up with a plate that you didn’t make for Right? It’s like it’s like when I make a plate for my 6 year old and I set it down in front of me, he’s like, I don’t want green bean casserole.
Speaker A [00:04:55]:
What are
Speaker B [00:04:55]:
you giving me?
Speaker A [00:04:57]:
Yeah. It’s a lot of activity versus accomplishment. Yeah.
Speaker B [00:05:00]:
Exactly. Looking
Speaker A [00:05:00]:
at my calendar shortly after I started my business, and it was all these networking events, and you go into all these classes and stuff like that.
Speaker B [00:05:08]:
Yeah. I
Speaker A [00:05:08]:
know you could learn stuff. There wasn’t a direct or even a very close indirect exchange of money.
Speaker B [00:05:17]:
Yeah.
Speaker A [00:05:17]:
So I wasn’t getting any I wasn’t producing.
Speaker B [00:05:20]:
Right. What’s the return?
Speaker A [00:05:21]:
Stay in business. Right? So, I mean, you could say, hey. You’re planting seeds, James.
Speaker B [00:05:25]:
Right.
Speaker A [00:05:25]:
And down the road, you can reap those, but I was like, well, rent is due today.
Speaker B [00:05:29]:
Right. So I gotta Exactly.
Speaker A [00:05:32]:
Be able to produce some plants here to knock out rent today, and then you can also have seeds long term.
Speaker B [00:05:37]:
Yeah.
Speaker A [00:05:38]:
But I remember looking at my calendar thinking, like, every single day. Right? 5 days a week up to 7, 8 o’clock at night. I got stuff going on where I’m trying to sell and rub elbows and stuff like that, but it’s not a light switch.
Speaker B [00:05:51]:
Yeah.
Speaker A [00:05:51]:
And it’s not practical. No. Because then when somebody came and actually there was, potential for money, I was busy.
Speaker B [00:05:59]:
Yeah.
Speaker A [00:05:59]:
Stuff is scheduled. I gotta go to this networking event, right, to try to get exactly what you’re offering me right
Speaker B [00:06:04]:
now. Exactly. That’s weird. Well, so what I think is interesting thing about that and one of our tips for you first on how to say no is, first, just understand why are you saying yes.
Speaker A [00:06:15]:
Mhmm. And are
Speaker B [00:06:16]:
you saying yes because you feel like you should? Is it something inside of you, or are you saying yes because you don’t wanna disappoint someone else? Right? We have this people pleaser mentality kinda built into us of, like, especially when we’re young. Oh, you have to listen. You have to sit quietly in church. You don’t make a ruckus when you’re in the store, whenever all these things Alright. And so, like, you asking people for the board or when you were asked for the board, if you would have said no, you probably would have felt this incidents of like, oh, well, I let them down and I can’t do that. Yeah.
Speaker A [00:06:44]:
I felt like I owed them.
Speaker B [00:06:45]:
Yeah.
Speaker A [00:06:46]:
Mhmm.
Speaker B [00:06:46]:
So we have this people pleasing mentality. And first, I think the important thing is say, am I saying yes for me, or am I saying yes to not disappoint you?
Speaker A [00:06:55]:
Right. Yeah. I guess in the case of this board, I’ve been going for so long, when you pay your dues, whatever.
Speaker B [00:07:01]:
Right.
Speaker A [00:07:02]:
And you, I mean, show up so that they actually it’s not an empty room. Right? So there’s value there. And I guess I was doing that stuff helping out here and there, but I felt like it was a way to give back on a larger scale. So I thought, sure. Yeah.
Speaker B [00:07:16]:
Yeah.
Speaker A [00:07:16]:
But I didn’t know because when they when they sell you, it’s like, hey. It’s only an hour a month.
Speaker B [00:07:21]:
Right. I was
Speaker A [00:07:22]:
like, yeah. Only hour a month? You spend an hour a month? Sure.
Speaker B [00:07:25]:
Right.
Speaker A [00:07:25]:
No problem. It’s way more than an hour.
Speaker B [00:07:28]:
Well and and to be fair, I think you bring up a really good point is that we get this guilt of, I wanna give back. I wanna be of service to other people. I don’t wanna be wrapped up in only my own crap. Right? But then this other idea of, Well, what does you spending an hour ballooning into 10 hours a month Right. Take you away from? Right? So how does say no is really Also important of every yes comes at the opportunity cost. Absolutely. Fifteen other noes. Right?
Speaker A [00:07:56]:
At least.
Speaker B [00:07:57]:
The example that I love using is I’ve set a boundary of I don’t do networking. Working well, now it’s after 3 PM because I pick up my kids, but my yes to an event after 3 PM is a no to my husband Alright. Because then he’s got It’s a no for him to work because then he’s gotta come home Mhmm. From work to make it there to take care of the kids so I can go do this thing.
Speaker A [00:08:18]:
Mhmm.
Speaker B [00:08:18]:
So it’s not just what that yes means to me and all my other no’s. Right? Like, if I’m gonna go to this networking event, it means I’m not gonna maybe put my kids to bed. It also means I’m not gonna on Netflix, not gonna have dinner with my husband, you know, all these other things, maybe not do the laundry, but it also could be a no for somebody else.
Speaker A [00:08:36]:
Right?
Speaker B [00:08:37]:
And what how that impacts others.
Speaker A [00:08:39]:
Yeah. So if you say yes I remember signing up for, Tony Robbins event.
Speaker B [00:08:43]:
Yeah.
Speaker A [00:08:44]:
That was 7 days.
Speaker B [00:08:45]:
Oh.
Speaker A [00:08:46]:
And I signed up for it thinking no problem. I looked at my calendar, and it was clear. We’re cool.
Speaker B [00:08:50]:
Yeah.
Speaker A [00:08:50]:
Right? This is pre kid. And I told my wife, hey. I signed up for this thing. And her first response, I think, was, who’s gonna walk the dog? I was like, you?
Speaker B [00:09:05]:
Yeah. Right.
Speaker A [00:09:06]:
So that it made me realize, like, oh, I signed up for this thing, but then that means that I’ve I’m essentially forcefully signed you up
Speaker B [00:09:13]:
for Yeah.
Speaker A [00:09:13]:
Taking care of the dog in the morning Right. Where I would normally take care of the dog in the morning.
Speaker B [00:09:17]:
Yeah.
Speaker A [00:09:17]:
So I was like, oh, you had all these things that weren’t necessarily on your calendar.
Speaker B [00:09:22]:
But that’s just life.
Speaker A [00:09:23]:
But it’s totally is.
Speaker B [00:09:24]:
But in our business, to pull back to the example that you said Earlier saying yes to networking means not having opportunities for client calls, for discovery calls, for prospect calls, whatever that looks like.
Speaker A [00:09:34]:
Mhmm.
Speaker B [00:09:34]:
I struggled with the same thing where I was like, I’m just gonna fill my calendar with all these networking events and go so people know I’m here. And certainly, you need to do some of that. Like, right, you need to let people know that you’re in business. But When am I gonna do my marketing? When am I gonna, like, post for social media? When am I gonna look at my numbers? When am I gonna do my sales calls? All of these other things that can’t happen When I’m not at my desk in my office. Right.
Speaker A [00:09:57]:
Yeah. It’s challenging.
Speaker B [00:09:58]:
Yeah.
Speaker A [00:09:59]:
And I remember being in sales training, and I think I was in there, I don’t remember. 3 years, something like that. And the guy had I think he was raising his rates, the monthly not that you pay.
Speaker B [00:10:11]:
Sure.
Speaker A [00:10:12]:
Every time somebody raises their rates, you’re like, do I want this? Do I need this? And I look back at how much time I was investing in that class, and I thought, you know, I’ve been at this class a lot, and he’s starting to get to the point where it’s been recycled at least 4 times. Mhmm. I’m hearing the same stuff. Yeah. So I should already know this. And then I thought, well, if you didn’t go to the class, what would you do? Like, I’d spend that time selling. I’d actually be out there making the calls or knocking on the doors Mhmm. Using the skills that I’m in this class to learn.
Speaker A [00:10:41]:
Yeah. I’m not learning sales skills just still learn sales skills. I’m learning sales skills to actually make sales.
Speaker B [00:10:46]:
Right. So I’m like, oh,
Speaker A [00:10:48]:
someone say, like, hey. We’re not gonna renew, and then go make some sales. Mhmm. So it’s interesting how if you went to raise rates or whatever, I would have just gone to the class. Right?
Speaker B [00:10:58]:
Right.
Speaker A [00:10:59]:
I’m learning sales, but without actually making any sales.
Speaker B [00:11:02]:
Right. So opportunity cost is a huge thing to pay attention to when you’re looking at Yeah. Another one is, how does how does this yes or no, whatever’s in front of you, align with your values? So we talk about this a lot, but one of the things I do with folks is say, you know, whenever something comes to you, you have to filter it through what your values are. So if you say, you know, your your family is first, and then your business and then it’s your health or or whatever these things are. Then, you know, how does that align when someone’s like, Hey. Can you watch my dog for me for a week? It’s like, sure. I wanna be helpful. Sure.
Speaker B [00:11:36]:
I don’t wanna say no to you, but what does that mean to these other areas of my life. Like, if I’m watching your dog, does that mean I get to go for a run-in the morning? Maybe yes. Maybe no. Does that mean that, like, I don’t get to spend time with my kids because I’m busy with your you know, whatever those things are. So those might all be yeah. It’s fine for a week. It’s a short term thing. But I have To pay attention to how does this yes impact my value.
Speaker B [00:11:59]:
So I think it’s really important to know what your values are
Speaker A [00:12:01]:
Mhmm.
Speaker B [00:12:02]:
So that you have that Some Filter when you’re saying yes or no.
Speaker A [00:12:04]:
What do you want your life to be like and saying yes to that thing? Is that gonna get too much in the way? Yeah. So, yeah, it’s interesting. What’s your carpet gonna be like? Right?
Speaker B [00:12:12]:
It’s Right.
Speaker A [00:12:14]:
Random dog in your house.
Speaker B [00:12:15]:
Is that is that fair question to ask? What are your dog’s potty training skills?
Speaker A [00:12:20]:
I don’t for a week, I think that’s a fair question. I mean, if it’s an hour or whatever, you can bring them outside, whatever. But a week?
Speaker B [00:12:26]:
Can your dog make it through the night.
Speaker A [00:12:28]:
Yeah. How does it sleep?
Speaker B [00:12:29]:
Right.
Speaker A [00:12:29]:
Where does it sleep?
Speaker B [00:12:31]:
Fair. I really value my sleep. So if that dog’s not sleeping, that’s probably be an elf.
Speaker A [00:12:35]:
Is it if I have a chewed up remote, is that gonna be like, oh, that’s a thing, or is it gonna be like, let me get you another remote?
Speaker B [00:12:40]:
Yeah.
Speaker A [00:12:41]:
Or something like that. I say that because had our dog chew one thing in 13 years.
Speaker B [00:12:46]:
It was a remote?
Speaker A [00:12:47]:
It was a remote. Yeah. Which is not it’s not the end of the world. Right.
Speaker B [00:12:50]:
It was
Speaker A [00:12:50]:
just one of those, like I think she was 6 when she did it.
Speaker B [00:12:53]:
That’s right.
Speaker A [00:12:54]:
You never chew anything. You leave stuff out. My kid, oh my gosh. He’ll be half done with his, I swear to god, you could leave a half eaten steak on the little table next to the chair, and she wouldn’t touch it.
Speaker B [00:13:07]:
That’s impressive.
Speaker A [00:13:08]:
Yeah, she’s a great dog because
Speaker B [00:13:09]:
Yeah.
Speaker A [00:13:10]:
I mean, she we just she’s smart is what it comes down to. I would love to say I’m a dog trainer. She’s a incredibly smart dog.
Speaker B [00:13:17]:
Yeah.
Speaker A [00:13:17]:
And she just knows where the boundaries are and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker B [00:13:20]:
That’s awesome.
Speaker A [00:13:21]:
Whatever. Mhmm. I don’t know what happened with her at all, but whatever. Maybe another dog snuck in there and chewed it.
Speaker B [00:13:26]:
Yeah. Right?
Speaker A [00:13:27]:
She couldn’t bark loud enough. I don’t know. Whatever whatever it was.
Speaker B [00:13:32]:
Alright. So let’s say you’re you’re evaluating an opportunity in front of you. Business, personal, otherwise. Yeah. And you decide, okay. This is a no.
Speaker A [00:13:42]:
Okay.
Speaker B [00:13:42]:
You know, there’s somebody who even actually says if it’s not a heck yes. It’s a no. Yeah. So you know you should say no.
Speaker A [00:13:50]:
Mhmm.
Speaker B [00:13:50]:
Now how do you go about doing that? So let’s say a board opportunity came back up. One of the things I teach my clients is the power of the positive no. So if you’ve ever been a manager or given your kid feedback, it’s this idea of the sandwich.
Speaker A [00:14:03]:
Oh, yeah. The sandwich.
Speaker B [00:14:04]:
The good, the bad, the good. Right? So, like, you might give feedback. Here’s you’re doing really well. Here’s what I want you to work on. You reinforce that, hey. You’re still working. You’re doing a good job.
Speaker A [00:14:13]:
Mhmm.
Speaker B [00:14:13]:
Same thing with saying no to something, especially when it’s to some So if someone asked me to be on a board, I might say, you know, I really love what your organization is doing. I really support and believe Some believe you
Speaker A [00:14:26]:
guys are making an impact.
Speaker B [00:14:26]:
I can’t right now based on the season of life I am in and the other commitments I have. You know? Let’s talk about the kind of person that would really serve your organization well, and I’ll try to come up with a couple other ideas because I believe what you’re doing is really important.
Speaker A [00:14:42]:
Interesting. I have heard that, the whole season of life thing
Speaker B [00:14:45]:
Yeah.
Speaker A [00:14:45]:
So many times when I was trying to get people on this board Yeah. About my season of life, this almost comical. Mhmm. So I’m like, just tell me now.
Speaker B [00:14:56]:
It’s not you. It’s me.
Speaker A [00:14:57]:
Yeah, it’s
Speaker B [00:14:58]:
the total it’s the dating thing for boards. It’s not you. It’s me, which is true. Right? Because if I’m running into my kid’s soccer game at three PM or if I really only have 6 hours in a workday
Speaker A [00:15:08]:
Mhmm.
Speaker B [00:15:08]:
Based on what’s going on, I truly don’t have time in the seasonal life to add Right. 5 more. I’m not I’m not This and that at all, but it’s relevancy is huge. And so I think too many times we feel like we have to do it all when we realize, oh, we should just pay more attention to things we say yes to.
Speaker A [00:15:24]:
Yeah. What was that psychological experiment they had where people were cutting in line? And if they said if they gave a reason why they had to cut in people are less at to say, no. You can’t. Oh. So say, hey. Do you mind I think they had a copy or something like that back when people actually had copiers. And the guy was cutting in line. He’s like, hey.
Speaker A [00:15:44]:
Do you mind if I just step in front of you? I gotta make this really quick. And they would come up with some. And they find that the reason even wasn’t, like you know, my grandma’s dying and she needs this copy. It was just like, do you mind if I if I make this copy? Because I need to make this copy really quick. Or something that’s just like, what? Everybody needs to make their copy quick. That’s why we’re in line. But if they would say because, they were more apt to not have any pushback.
Speaker B [00:16:08]:
Oh, that’s so Interesting.
Speaker A [00:16:09]:
Yeah. It’s bizarre.
Speaker B [00:16:11]:
It’s all psychology, man. Bizarre. Yeah. We as humans wanna be helpful. Mhmm. Yeah.
Speaker A [00:16:16]:
So it’s interesting because somebody could’ve said, no.
Speaker B [00:16:19]:
Go to the back, buddy. Yeah. The whole point of lies. Do because Yeah. Yeah. But we can leverage this in the same way to negotiate out of things.
Speaker A [00:16:26]:
Mhmm.
Speaker B [00:16:27]:
Right? So you might look at your calendar. I I use this example. An a god lover, but a good friend of mine, is is in has a big job at a health care organization down south, and she’s got 2 girls who are active in a bunch of things. And she’s Trying to work on her health and, oh, yeah, she decided to chair the PTO and be, you know, room Co parent and all of these things. And I was like, so where’s that gonna fit? Where are you gonna spend time on that? And so the thing that I’ve been coaching her on is, okay. You committed to this. It’s not that you don’t believe the organization isn’t doing good things, but it’s that you don’t physically have the time So once you identify, maybe here are the things that I already said yes to that I really need to turn around and say no to. Mhmm.
Speaker B [00:17:12]:
You you can use the same power of no, but then you just have to say, maybe I’ll help you find somebody, or let’s work on a transition plan or something like that. Yeah. Because there are plenty of things that we’ve said yes to that now the circumstances have changed, and, really, we should change our answer.
Speaker A [00:17:30]:
Right. Yeah, it’s always interesting the energy that it takes for somebody to ask you something versus the energy you have to spend if you say yes to that. Mhmm. So do you wanna be on a board? Takes seconds Right. Of their energy. But if you say yes, you just devoted years of your life to for this board, good or bad.
Speaker B [00:17:49]:
Yeah. Well and I think that that lends itself to take whatever whatever time you think that commitment is gonna take and take Times 3, 4, 5, 10. Yeah. Right? Because you don’t you don’t really know until you get into it what it’s gonna take.
Speaker A [00:18:01]:
Mhmm. Yeah. There’s, yeah, especially with boards. Holy cow. It’s brutal. But you raised an interesting point with the values thing. Can you go more into that? Because I want me, I was thinking about that with the board. Mhmm.
Speaker A [00:18:15]:
It was a group that I believed in
Speaker B [00:18:16]:
Yeah.
Speaker A [00:18:17]:
Or believed I believe they existed. Right? I believed, I like what they did.
Speaker B [00:18:22]:
Yeah. I
Speaker A [00:18:22]:
like what they stood for. I like the what I learned from them. Mhmm. I love the people that I met there. So everything was like, you need to keep this going. And if you being on the board is something that helps keep it going, that aligns with my values
Speaker B [00:18:35]:
Yeah.
Speaker A [00:18:36]:
But on the flip side, from a timing point of view, it was brutal. And it wasn’t one of those groups where we could just be like, hey. How about instead of my time, I just give you money?
Speaker B [00:18:46]:
Yeah. Like charities. Mhmm. You know? Like, rather than showing up and volunteering at the shelter Yeah. You know, go buy some dog food Yeah. Or whatever. Yeah. I hear you.
Speaker B [00:18:54]:
Boards are a really tough one, and I think the the way that I’ve worked around it has said, you know, is there a project That, you know, like A
Speaker A [00:19:02]:
one time thing.
Speaker B [00:19:03]:
A one time thing or a hey. The holiday party is coming up. How about I go look for some silent auction items that I can help Get in the silent auction because I know that that’s gonna save you 2 hours of
Speaker A [00:19:15]:
Oh my gosh. Yeah.
Speaker B [00:19:16]:
That’d be way better. So finding little not little wins for them, I think, to give them back time, Some Especially if it’s someone who’s on the board who’s trying to get off and save their time, be like, I see you. Mhmm. You want more time. Let me help you save a little bit over here. And so it’s like a a no but. Alright. Yeah.
Speaker B [00:19:33]:
That can be helpful too.
Speaker A [00:19:34]:
Alright.
Speaker B [00:19:35]:
If you believe in the organization. So for example, I’m on A networking group’s events committee.
Speaker A [00:19:40]:
Okay.
Speaker B [00:19:40]:
I believe in the group. I’ve gotten business from the group. It is it’s it’s a really nice group. I really appreciate. They’re helping me grow me grow my business, so that’s wonderful. But rather than being on the board, I go to a half hour meeting once a month. And then 3 times a year, I have to find a silent auction item and, you know, then I go to the party. Alright.
Speaker B [00:19:58]:
So that’s really great, and it’s not It’s not taking up the strategic brainpower
Speaker A [00:20:04]:
Mhmm.
Speaker B [00:20:04]:
Of me to to say, I need to think about it a high level, 5 hours a week, where this is going. It’s more of a Mhmm. I might spend an hour a month because of the committee.
Speaker A [00:20:15]:
Yeah. You raise a very good point there because it’s not just time, it’s the energy.
Speaker B [00:20:20]:
Yeah. The mental energy.
Speaker A [00:20:22]:
Decision making and organizing and strategizing, all that kind of stuff. You have a finite level.
Speaker B [00:20:27]:
Right.
Speaker A [00:20:28]:
So if you’re spending it on that, you’re not spending it necessarily on your business or family or whatever else is important to you.
Speaker B [00:20:35]:
Well, that’s the kind of stuff that I feel like pops up when you’re doing something else.
Speaker A [00:20:39]:
Mhmm.
Speaker B [00:20:39]:
So, like, those little things of, oh, yeah. I told so and so that I would do that thing. That’s what comes up I’m, like, at dinner with my kids
Speaker A [00:20:47]:
Oh.
Speaker B [00:20:47]:
Or at night before I go to bed, it’s that little, like, don’t forget.
Speaker A [00:20:50]:
Alright. And
Speaker B [00:20:51]:
then you have to capture it and go do it. Mhmm. So If I wanna be present, that’s the stuff that eats at me usually. So, yeah, the mental energy piece, I’m glad you brought that up. It’s Huge. And I think about it. But think about also then the the time around it. Right? So you had that board meeting.
Speaker B [00:21:09]:
You know, they were a South Madison thing, and You live in a a suburb of Madison. Right? So you’ve got travel
Speaker A [00:21:14]:
Mhmm.
Speaker B [00:21:15]:
To and from that thing. You’ve got preparation. You’ve got any emails you gotta send, especially you’re on the board, you gotta plan the meetings. You gotta think strategically about where you’re headed. Right? There’s so much time outside of the meeting itself.
Speaker A [00:21:25]:
Yeah. There’s a lot of management.
Speaker B [00:21:27]:
Yeah.
Speaker A [00:21:27]:
And I don’t consider myself necessarily a good manager of people. I’m a good manager of me, and I can help other people that are driven and stuff like that, but employees or board members, just not my forte.
Speaker B [00:21:42]:
Yeah. Well and maybe that’s another really great point is doing your own strengths.
Speaker A [00:21:45]:
Mhmm. And
Speaker B [00:21:45]:
then using that, not as your excuse, But as you’re I’m really good at managing things, so let me have a thing to manage. Let me have the holiday party. Somebody answered board.
Speaker A [00:21:58]:
I’m just imagining somebody’s like, hey. Do you wanna be on the board? I’m like, no. I’m terrible at managing people. I’m not incorrect. So instead of it’s not my season
Speaker B [00:22:09]:
Right. That’s It’s just honesty. See?
Speaker A [00:22:12]:
Yeah. I suppose. That’s that’s totally fine. Yeah. Yeah. It’s interest the most frustrating part of that experience and even being a manager of employees is when I just had this, yesterday into today. You tell them, in this case, employees, this is the plan. 9:30 this, you’re doing that.
Speaker A [00:22:31]:
10:30, you’re doing that when they’re done with that thing. 11:30, you’re doing this. All I have to do specifically with training.
Speaker B [00:22:36]:
Mhmm.
Speaker A [00:22:37]:
And I get an email that says from an employee. It says I did this today. It was not followed James’s plan. Oh, no. And so it’s sort of those, like, I’m gonna be gone Thursday and Friday.
Speaker B [00:22:52]:
Yeah.
Speaker A [00:22:52]:
And so I’m trying to get all these things in place. Mhmm. And I feel like I’m playing chess with pieces that are walking on their own.
Speaker B [00:22:59]:
Oh, yeah. That’s a really great analogy.
Speaker A [00:23:02]:
Yeah. Because I was I was joking with my wife. Like, I remember Command and Conquer, the video game.
Speaker B [00:23:06]:
Okay. I
Speaker A [00:23:06]:
don’t know if you ever played it.
Speaker B [00:23:07]:
No.
Speaker A [00:23:08]:
It was you were looking bird’s eye level of your little armies. Mhmm. And you had to build your little tanks and stuff like that and build the manufacturing plant to build the tanks. Okay.
Speaker B [00:23:15]:
And then
Speaker A [00:23:15]:
you would attack the little things, and you take over the land. But if you didn’t tell your little armies to do something, they would just sit there. Mhmm. And then the other person that you’re playing against, they have the same thing. So they had to figure out, am I gonna go or am I gonna go build a tank factory to build the tanks and then attack? So and they had different levels of soldiers.
Speaker B [00:23:33]:
Okay.
Speaker A [00:23:34]:
So these soldiers, you can tell them to build a tank or they can ride in a tank, and then these guys are infantry people. But I’m like, this is like playing that command and conquer game, but the people that you’re supposed to tell, they just go off on their own. Yeah. Instead of not doing anything, they just told they’re just like, I’m chopping down trees.
Speaker B [00:23:53]:
Gosh. That’s my analogy to that is, like, having a 1 year old.
Speaker A [00:23:59]:
Maybe there are times oh my gosh. There are times.
Speaker B [00:24:01]:
Well, it’s like the setting. I’m gonna set you here, and I’m gonna go turn around and come back, And you may not be there anymore. Right? Like, that’s the challenging part is apparent. Like, at least up until 6 months, like, maybe 4. I’m gonna set you here, and I’m probably gonna come back, and gonna be there. If I turn around washing
Speaker A [00:24:16]:
it mobility.
Speaker B [00:24:17]:
You’re here. Mhmm. Right. Unless I put you in a pen Right. Like a dog. But, yeah, I think that that’s a that’s a big change as a parent where you’re like, set you down, and you could be, like, over by the stairs in 2 seconds. But it’s Awesome. It’s true.
Speaker B [00:24:30]:
Yeah. I like the moving chess pieces.
Speaker A [00:24:32]:
Yeah, so it’s interesting because I was thinking, I guess, to relate it to this. These are employees that are essentially saying no without saying no.
Speaker B [00:24:42]:
Mhmm.
Speaker A [00:24:42]:
And I don’t I don’t believe that there’s any malicious intent.
Speaker B [00:24:45]:
Right.
Speaker A [00:24:46]:
I believe that they’re saying yes to other stuff. But because they said yes other stuff they weren’t able to say yes to the one thing Mhmm. That I needed them to say yes to.
Speaker B [00:24:54]:
No. That sounds like, we need to talk about priorities. Yeah. Priorities and the one thing. It’s for a different day.
Speaker A [00:25:01]:
Listen to your boss. Do what he says. I know. It’s so interesting watching some movie that’s got bad guys with the like, the henchmen or something like that, like a James Bond movie where these bad guys are in the cave or whatever. Mhmm. My first thought is, where did this bad guy hire these people? And what was the interview process like? And when he, like, when he shoots his employees for not doing something his little henchmen for not doing something, where does he find another one? Yeah. Does he go on Indeed and say, like, hey. I’m trying to take over the referrals meet other people.
Speaker B [00:25:33]:
I think it’d be really fun to have you as a business owner commentate As you’re watching a James Bond movie, maybe this is a new way for you to make money on YouTube.
Speaker A [00:25:43]:
Maybe. It’s just Mystery Science Theater with James Bond Right. Or some bad guy.
Speaker B [00:25:47]:
James and James Bond.
Speaker A [00:25:49]:
Yeah. It’s just a bizarre like, that’s not how you can treat employees.
Speaker B [00:25:52]:
Right. I
Speaker A [00:25:53]:
don’t I don’t even come close to shooting them. There are days I want to, but they ever come close, they don’t stick around.
Speaker B [00:25:58]:
Oh my gosh. Or how did how did they get them to actually stay there and do the thing when their life was on the line?
Speaker A [00:26:03]:
Yeah. Do they? Maybe that’s why they have the lair and some deserted island. Like, I can’t leave. You know, there’s no other jobs here.
Speaker B [00:26:09]:
Hey. You’re trapped. So
Speaker A [00:26:11]:
it’s a
Speaker B [00:26:11]:
bizarre to this is saying no to having any other kind of life.
Speaker A [00:26:14]:
Yeah. Yeah. You’re dead. So maybe that’s here’s the trick. I have to move my business onto a deserted island, get people to come there.
Speaker B [00:26:21]:
Why don’t you try that for your Atlanta hot coast?
Speaker A [00:26:24]:
First step, get a deserted island.
Speaker B [00:26:27]:
Yeah. Right. Alright. Well and maybe to get a deserted island, you’ll have to say no to some other that distract you from it.
Speaker A [00:26:32]:
You know, I’m just thinking, in order to get the deserted island, I have to build my business up to be able to afford to buy a deserted island and to afford the plane I need to get to the deserted island.
Speaker B [00:26:41]:
Look at this brand new vision we’re
Speaker A [00:26:42]:
making for your life. As bad as you figured out. But it’s interesting just figuring out when we’re talking about ways to say no.
Speaker B [00:26:49]:
Uh-huh.
Speaker A [00:26:49]:
Some people just don’t. They just mean no.
Speaker B [00:26:54]:
Yeah. They just
Speaker A [00:26:55]:
don’t even tell you.
Speaker B [00:26:56]:
So that’s a really great fair point. In sales, this happens a lot. Right? So if you’re if you’re on the sales end and you’re talking to a prospect and they they don’t wanna say Because they don’t wanna disappoint you. Mhmm. Like the, oh, check back in with me in January. Yeah. We’ve talked about this before. Right? But, like, if they say maybe, it’s just because they don’t wanna say no.
Speaker B [00:27:15]:
Right. So having someone say no to you on the receiving end is actually really freeing too. So There’s power in saying no, but there’s also power in someone telling you no so you know what your next step can be.
Speaker A [00:27:27]:
Totally. Oh my gosh. It’s huge. Yeah. Just yeah. A lot of times or most of the time, really, when you ask somebody something, if they tell you, no, that’s fine.
Speaker B [00:27:36]:
Mhmm.
Speaker A [00:27:36]:
Because they, like, move on with your life.
Speaker B [00:27:38]:
Right.
Speaker A [00:27:38]:
But when they don’t tell you and they just don’t do the thing Yeah. Or an employee would have said, hey, James. That’s a terrible idea because and they actually had reason. Alright. Let’s change the plan, but they just didn’t do it. It’s like they told me no without telling me no. Too late. By the way
Speaker B [00:27:57]:
We’ll teach them the power of positive no.
Speaker A [00:27:59]:
Yeah. We’ll
Speaker B [00:27:59]:
have them watch this podcast. Well, this has been Diary of a Worthy Pursuit.
Speaker A [00:28:03]:
How to get what you truly want in life and business?